VAST

[EvilEvo]

I know you all love VAST over here. But I just need to post about what happened to me. Which is bullshit because I brought them so many customers and builds and recognition for building a fast car.

Link to thread:
Vendor Review

I realize I was a bit harsh at the end, but as you could guess, I was very pissed off when I made that thread.

And my first post:

I really hate to have to do this, but this has gone on for too long. VAST and I have been having issues recently and I just can’t take it anymore. 2 years ago when I started my build, I purchased my clutch and tune through VAST. When I bought my tune, it was with lifetime revisions. Meaning, I can get a revision for my tune if it is not running right throughout the lifetime of me owning my car. Now, after 14 revisions and 1 year, my car still does not run like it should because the tune has never been finalized or finished.

A little background, my last 3 revisions, the AFR has been off and in the 10s. I told VAST about this and they said “It is a hardware issue, fix it and it will go back to normal.” Ok, so I replaced my sparkplugs, coilpacks, and ICMs. No change. Pressure tested and smoke tested multiple times. Fixed a few small leaks, but still no change in the AFR. When I was up in NY for that dyno day, Mike(gearhead) said that I should try an older file that I knew had a proper AFR. So I looked back through my logs and found that V10 and V11 both had AFR in the 11.5 range. So I flashed it, we went out driving and what do you know? PERFECT 11.5 AFR!!! So obviously not a hardware issue, because if it were, the AFR would have still been off.

Here is the V14 log of IDC and O2Voltages





And here is the V10 after I just flashed it again.





So I told VAST this, and asked them to use the fueling from V10 on the new file, but leave the timing the same, after much fighting about how they changed their policy now and I had to pay for more revisions (we will get to this in a second) they finally gave me a new file to fix the issue. So last night I went out and took a log because the car had been feeling better, what do you know? Still AFR in the 10s with the same IDC issues as before. So I emailed VAST this newest log and now they are telling me that their policy has changed for good and I need to pay $125 for 1 revision.

First, why should I have to pay $125 to fix a mistake that they clearly made on my tune 3 revisions ago. They fucked it up, they need to fix it.

Second, they changed their policy on revisions. That is completely fine, they are allowed to do that. What they are not allowed to do is change what I have purchased from them. I bought my tune with unlimited revisions and they need to honor that. For example, AT&T has since deleted their $30 unlimited data plan for capped data plans. But did they make anyone that already had the $30 unlimited plan change just because they don’t offer that anymore? NO!!!!! You are grandfathered in, because that is how that shit works. Will VAST do this even after I have spent close to TWENTY THOUSAND DOLLARS with them? NO.

So in conclusion, FUCK VAST, I’m driving up to EPL to have them tune my car on the dyno, and maybe then I can make 600+AWHP like my car should be able to do.

[beemercer]

damn, well hope the EPL tune works for you

[EvilEvo]

damn, well hope the EPL tune works for you

Me too. Me too. I think the key will be a dyno tune.

[sakimano]

Lots of weird shit at VAST lately...evil, sorry to see you go through this.

I don't think you're alone, and I don't think your situation is the worst one. Its amazing but in short order, a company could be on the verge of ending itself. Vast 2.0 might just be vast 0.

[PhillyB7s4]

Well this is not good to hear, The reason I got a Vast tune was so I could upgrade it as I build my engine, but I may have to head in another direction to avoid a similar situation to yours.

[EvilEvo]

Well this is not good to hear, The reason I got a Vast tune was so I could upgrade it as I build my engine, but I may have to head in another direction to avoid a similar situation to yours.

They will make you pay for sure if you change hardware. That is their new policy.

[PhillyB7s4]

They will make you pay for sure if you change hardware. That is their new policy.

I knew that, but I thought after the build and "final" tune and bill any modifications to the tune were considered free updates, it's never perfect the first time. I've gone through 3 different tunes on my B7 and there are still some very small and minor issues.

[EvilEvo]

I knew that, but I thought after the build and "final" tune and bill any modifications to the tune were considered free updates, it's never perfect the first time. I've gone through 3 different tunes on my B7 and there are still some very small and minor issues.

Their policy is 3 free revisions now. After that it costs money.

[PhillyB7s4]

What's the good word with EPL?

[EvilEvo]

What's the good word with EPL?

They have my car? Taking more time for tuning because I had a friend pick up the car to install ER intercoolers and bring the car back on monday/tuesday. The JHM FMIC is too restrictive.

[sakimano]

car working yet?

also VAST seems to be a shadow of its former self. They're selling clutches and advising resurfacing your stock flywheel on a B6/7 S4...even though everyone in the 4.2 world knows you DO NOT resurface the shitbox flywheel that came on the B6 S4. They're going to have guys buying clutches and then shredding flywheels, needing to pull the whole car apart again. Epic fail.

p.s. that Tials vs. K04 thread on AZ was funny. Anyone else wonder why nobody asked a bunch of pertinent questions like

a) what's the octane in both cars
b) what's the weight of both cars
c) why aren't we talking about the fact only the Tials car had meth?
d) why aren't we talking about the fact that the stage 3 K04 car is a stage 3 minus

I love some of NYCVR6's comments in there, calling out all of these dyno queens. Good to see people finally recognizing that AMD is a joke. Love how their built 3.0 770 car ran mid 12s. Congrats - you are now running like a car making 350 whp (not 650). His trap speeds were high 120s...but I was expecting 135-140 with those dyno sheets. There have been a couple dozen K04 cars run mid-high 120s trap speeds...none of which dyno'd over 475 whp (not 650 whp lol).

COLLOSSAL JOKE

[sakimano]

VAST seems to be a shadow of its former self.

this has turned out to be more true than any of us even imagined. Since that time, there have been 3 or 4 massive blowup threads...big staff changes causing many of VAST's problems, and just recently they appear to have been booted from audizine (they claimed it was a mutual breakup lol).

All in all a real shame to see what has happened to VAST.

[Joey]

this has turned out to be more true than any of us even imagined. Since that time, there have been 3 or 4 massive blowup threads...big staff changes causing many of VAST's problems, and just recently they appear to have been booted from audizine (they claimed it was a mutual breakup lol).

All in all a real shame to see what has happened to VAST.

Definitely a shame. I have heard some stories going on out there over the past couple of months. It was an awesome time and a great place to be when we went out that winter to Detroit.

[Malmhead]

this has turned out to be more true than any of us even imagined. Since that time, there have been 3 or 4 massive blowup threads...big staff changes causing many of VAST's problems, and just recently they appear to have been booted from audizine (they claimed it was a mutual breakup lol).

All in all a real shame to see what has happened to VAST.

It has been getting worse...

So who's getting FrankenTurbos for free?

[Joey]

I want to copy over the emails that went back and forth between Malmhead and Andy at VAST because i think potential customers should be aware of how they handle their customers. I was shocked after reading through this and question how these guys are still in business with customer service like that??

Naturally I was interested in the e-mail when I saw it come across my inbox yesterday so I sent them off an e-mail:

Originally Posted by Sent: Monday, January 09, 2012 12:34 PM
I’d like to take advantage of this, however the GILTECH ceramic coating for the turbos and inlets are not listed on the product page… Is this automatically included with the sale or is it extra?

Now, for those of you who haven’t been to the FrankenTurbo product page, ceramic coating has always been an option, and its protective capabilities are appealing, so naturally I wanted them. The normal total for the whole package is about $2,250

However, by this morning I had received no response, I sent a follow-up e-mail:

Originally Posted by Sent Tue 1/10/2012 9:22 AM
As below, I’d like to buy these but I do want them ceramic coated, how do I do this?

I received the following 2 responses (I’ve substituted real name with my account name here.)

Originally Posted by Tue 1/10/2012 9:34 AM
Hi [malmhead], we did receive your e-mail yesterday and have been evaluating your question since then. Basically with this sale, we did not want to offer any add-on options because it is only for a duration of 9 sets (10th being the free one). However, in the spirit of customer service, I'd like to go ahead and meet your wishes, as it seems you have your heart set on this coating.

So please just answer me a couple of questions or you can call me and I can process the order manually for you.

I just want to be clear on what you want. Would you like GILTECH Ceramic coating on both the inlets and turbine housings? If so. this will be an additional $279.95 (inlets) and $100 (turbos)

Would you like a turbo hardware kit? additional $69.95.

Once we know this, I will take payment from you (We can offer PayPal or Google Checkout - always easiest for us). and I can draft up an invoice for you. Thanks again, and we appreciate your business.

-Jimmy
VAST Consumer Relations

Originally Posted by Tue 1/10/2012 10:07 AM
Furthermore [malmhead] - I forgot to mention - the main reason we prefer not to offer the coating for this particular sale, is because the coating process adds 2-3 weeks to the handling of the product. So please keep that in mind and exercise some patience with the timetable, if you do end up going through with the order.

Thanks. Talk to you soon.

Let’s see… 1,799 + 279.95 + 100 + 69.95 = 2248.95… something is not right here.

Originally Posted by Tue 1/10/2012 10:16 AM
Hi Jimmy,

Are you saying that in order to get the free inlets you cannot get the coating? Those are the same prices for normally adding coated inlets onto the FT package, and brings the total to ~2250 which is the same as previous to this offer…

Is this correct?

At this point I find some local places that will do ceramic coating on parts and tell them its 2 K04 turbos w/inlets and they tell me 35 a piece or $40 less than VAST in 2-3 business days.

I get this response:

Originally Posted by Tue 1/10/2012 10:27 AM
No buddy, the inlets are still included in that price. If you went to our regular FrankenTurbos page (which is currently disabled in lieu of this sale) and you clicked on all possible options:

-Hardware kit
-inlets
-turbine coating
-inlet coating
... you would see that it would be $200 more (difference is inlets). However, I think I just realized that I did mis-quote you. I am just double-checking.

For the coating for the inlets it is only $80 (NOT $279) - that was my mistake. I apologize, but I think i got it right this time. I have drafted up a mock invoice for you in QB right now. The bottom line total for the FT, Inlets (coated), Turbos (coating), + hardware + shipping = 2142.57

let me know how that sounds. Sorry about my bad calculation before. You were right, I mistakenly included the price of the inlets in that quote. Should be all good now.

-jimmy

Now, if it was me, I would have deleted the first half of the e-mail and gotten rid of the “No buddy,…” and started the e-mail off correcting my mistake. That is fine though. I reply with:

Originally Posted by Tue 1/10/2012 11:55 AM
Thanks Jimmy, I just got some quotes back it looks like I can actually get them coated for less locally.

So what I’d like to order is the turbos w/hardware install kit with the inlets, I suppose I can just do that through the website then.

My only other request then is, could you please e-mail me after the 9th set it sold

Haha okay, everything is settled, right? Let me just get out my credit card and place this order… Oops its lunch time, I’ll order these when I get back.

From Andrew BeGole at VAST 14 minutes later:

Originally Posted by Tue 1/10/2012 12:09 PM
I see Jimmy has been working hard to help you out with an online sale only item, technically you are not eligible any longer for the sale seeing as my staff has been spending time with you on this.
Please understand that our sales are always ONLINE ONLY, and it's always clearly stated on the web pages. Not only has he helped you out on an online only sale, you basically just told us your going someplace else to have the coating done, that doesn't show very much loyalty.

That being said, I also can not believe you have asked my employee to let you know when the 9th set is sold. Not only is this unethical but your asking for him to show you some odd type of loyalty even though you just showed zero loyalty to us here at VAST regarding the coating.

Really…

And a follow-up from Jimmy

Originally Posted by Tue 1/10/2012 12:58 PM
you heard from my boss. basically, what you said in your last e-mail is most appropriate: " I suppose I can just do that through the website then. "

I would just advise that. Thanks.

-Jimmy

I shoot a quick reply to Jimmy saying “Thank you for the excellent customer service so far.” As a thanks/farewell as I see I am now dealing with the big boys at VAST.
My reply to Andrew:

Hi Andrew,

I once really admired VAST performance for the work that I had seen done with Chris Ostberg, and as a result I dismissed customer complaints I had seen floating around about your company. Now I am not so sure.

This e-mail from you is really eye-opening, I hope it was you who was the one joking in this one because the level of absurdity here is astounding. You can find my comments to yours in-line.

I see Jimmy has been working hard to help you out with an online sale only item, technically you are not eligible any longer for the sale seeing as my staff has been spending time with you on this. Please understand that our sales are always ONLINE ONLY, and it's always clearly stated on the web pages.

Are you saying I am not eligible for this sale even if I place the order online because I sent you guys an e-mail because information about the product on your website was missing?

Not only has he helped you out on an online only sale,

If your employee has not properly followed the proper guidelines for rendering assistance for an online sale, I don’t think I am the one who should be disciplined here. God forbid one of your customers contact you after you launch an exciting new promotion with a question about information not specified anywhere.

you basically just told us your going someplace else to have the coating done, that doesn't show very much loyalty.

I see you are unfamiliar with negotiation. A proper response to a comment like this would be, “we can discount the coating to match the pricing you found” in order to retain that revenue, besides, Jimmy informed me you didn’t want to offer any add-ons so what is the big deal about me getting it done somewhere else? Wouldn’t you expect a customer to do this elsewhere if it was not an option for this sale?

That being said, I also can not believe you have asked my employee to let you know when the 9th set is sold. Not only is this unethical

I see you are also unfamiliar with the idea of light-hearted humor which includes a smile at the end. The idea that you took this seriously…. Is… wow.

but your asking for him to show you some odd type of loyalty even though you just showed zero loyalty to us here at VAST regarding the coating.

This really makes no sense, I need to be loyal to your company’s overpriced ceramic coating costs in order to buy turbos from you?

Andrew responds with:

Originally Posted by Tue 1/10/2012 2:30 PM
Here is the deal [malmhead], what some people don't understand is that we are always going to be criticized about something.

It doesn't matter what we do for customers or even potential customers it's never good enough. Online only Sale with free inlets, nope not good enough. Free fuel pump with a large order, nope not good enough.

Constantly we have customers that never read the website, never seem to respect our time or knowledge and have a strange sense of entitlement. They just want things there way, well this isn't Burger King if you didn't notice.

Mike & I have been helping you sense back in August and we do appreciate your $200 that you have spent with us. Once again I have all these customers that feel I need to address every single request that have even though they have spent very little money with us.

You speak of Chris's car, Chris is a long time customer and has spent tens of thousands of dollars with us. To even bring his name up or relate yourself to Chris or his car is laughable.

We are not a small little shack running a drop ship business, this is a fully stocked building with over a million dollars in stock at all times, along with 5 service bays, a machine shop, fabrication shop and shipping department. That's a lot of overhead [malmhead], but what the hell do you care right? I have over head, I have a responsibility to provide for my crew & their family, sorry if you find it offensive that I look out for my guys & my bottom dollar. This is America & were are Capitalist, you do know the goal of a Capitalist don't you???? IT'S TO MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AS POSSIBLE!!!

Your not our only customer, your not our only sale of the day & your not the only person that has received an email on this topic today.

It's on ONLINE ONLY SALE [malmhead], what part of that do you not comprehend? thats all I was trying to get through to you because Jimmy is getting in trouble because your forcing him to break policy, but her once again what do you care.

Yes I might have a bad rap out on the streets, but it's only because a select few customers don't pay attention and have entitlement issues and feel the red carpet should be rolled out for them.

Sorry [malmhead], if your not happy with your service which has always been above & beyond. You are more then free to make a selection of any other turbo on the market and purchase it else where.


Yes Jimmy does a fine job, that's why I'm so frustrated that your disregard for any of our policies has distracted him form his duties today.

And my reply:

Originally Posted by Tue 1/10/2012 3:17 PM
Hi Andrew,

Here is the deal [malmhead], what some people don't understand is that we are always going to be criticized about something.

I understand this Andrew, which is why I said I dismissed such things, what I am saying is that the tone of what you are saying makes those complaints not so unwarranted.

It doesn't matter what we do for customers or even potential customers it's never good enough. Online only Sale with free inlets, nope not good enough. Free fuel pump with a large order, nope not good enough.

I’m not sure where this is coming from, I think this is a great promotion and was going to go ahead and buy the turbos from you ahead of schedule as a result.

Constantly we have customers that never read the website, never seem to respect our time or knowledge and have a strange sense of entitlement. They just want things there way, well this isn't Burger King if you didn't notice.

Except in this case I DID read the website. There are ZERO details regarding the ceramic coating that up until this sale was available on the product. Are you saying it is unreasonable for me to ask about an absence of information? It was a simple yes/no question I asked.

Mike & I have been helping you sense back in August and we do appreciate your $200 that you have spent with us. Once again I have all these customers that feel I need to address every single request that have even though they have spent very little money with us.
You speak of Chris's car, Chris is a long time customer and has spent tens of thousands of dollars with us. To even bring his name up or relate yourself to Chris or his car is laughable.

Thanks for the sarcasm about the amount of money I’ve spent with you. You want to know why? Because the product selection on your website is sorely lacking and un-customizable. And sending e-mails to you guys is met with incredulousness and hostility.

The comparison to Chris was to offer an example of what I thought had to have been an example of excellent customer service for him to have invested that much money with you guys, I can see it was probably one-off encounter.

I easily spent 10k+ with 034Motorsport, not only do they have amazing deals on their website, they price match competitors and have AMAZING customer support and aren’t a bunch of uptight holier than thou assholes when you ask them a question or recommendation. THAT Andrew, is what earns you customer loyalty, not this bullshit I have to deal with now with your shitty fucking attitude.


We are not a small little shack running a drop ship business, this is a fully stocked building with over a million dollars in stock at all times, along with 5 service bays, a machine shop, fabrication shop and shipping department. That's a lot of overhead [malmhead], but what the hell do you care right? I have over head, I have a responsibility to provide for my crew & their family, sorry if you find it offensive that I look out for my guys & my bottom dollar. This is America & were are Capitalist, you do know the goal of a Capitalist don't you???? IT'S TO MAKE AS MUCH MONEY AS POSSIBLE!!!

So you’re a business, just like everyone else, got it. Again, I’m not sure what this is about. I wanted to give you guys some money for ceramic coating and left a feeler out there for you to grab and get my business, but instead here we are.

[b][u]Your not our only customer, your not our only sale of the day & your not the only person that has received an email on this topic today.
It's on ONLINE ONLY SALE [malmhead], what part of that do you not comprehend? thats all I was trying to get through to you because Jimmy is getting in trouble because your forcing him to break policy, but her once again what do you care.

I like how simply responding to a customer’s e-mail about an online sale is a violation of your policies. Sounds like a real great place to work there Andrew.

Yes I might have a bad rap out on the streets, but it's only because a select few customers don't pay attention and have entitlement issues and feel the red carpet should be rolled out for them.

Again, I paid attention to your website, there was no information on what I contacted you about. I have no entitlement issues, I just wanted to know what I was getting for my money, how is that an entitlement issue?

Sorry [malmhead], if your not happy with your service which has always been above & beyond. You are more then free to make a selection of any other turbo on the market and purchase it else where.

Thanks for the recommendation Andrew, I think I will be buying my FrankenTurbos direct from the manufacturer. By taking advantage of this sale I only save $130 but end up having to give my money to VAST. By the way, that Manual Boost Controller I bought from you guys is a piece of shit and doesn’t stay set at the adjusted boost level.

Yes Jimmy does a fine job, that's why I'm so frustrated that your disregard for any of our policies has distracted him form his duties today.

OH! So sorry for disregarding your internal policies by contacting you about this.

Fuck you and fuck your fucking company.

Sincerely,
[malmhead]

And that is how things stand.

[ENV²]

Wow.... I would have flipped out and called them directly lol. This guy doesnt know how to run a business. What a dick!

[originalspanksta]

pretty ridiculous that anyone can find this to be an acceptable level of customer service.

[vweater1369]

I didn't realize online only sale meant no questions. Ooops. That Jimmy guy (who from what I read did a great job handling malmhead's questions) must be a valued asset, so much so that he has appeared to do his job TOO well and helping malmhead TOO much with his questions . Andrew must be scared of his job security.

I need to read about this laughable exchange more. I only skimmed, but its quite entertaining none the less.

[Joey]

Such a shame to see a once praised company spiral out of control right in front of us.

[03b6avant]

so who got the free turbos? Did they have to fly to China to get them?

[DaveD]

Bad customer service in a bad economy will lead to any company going out of business. Doesn't matter how good your product is, competition will catch up and pass you eventually. I hate seeing things like this, makes me glad to know I have a local shop I can trust for my needs.