My RS4 on Meth plans :P

[Retsujou]

So after being sucked into this whole idea by you people I researched around a little bit. I talked to dan@labontemotorsports and he advised me of their S3 system which you can look at here.
http://www.labontemotorsports.com/st...ow/ISG-S3.html

That system does not run off the MAF it actually picks up RPM+IDC+Vacuum even for the FSI engines. They are running the S3 kits on the Audi R8 V10 and the recent corvettes with some rather good feedback. Their S4 system will be out end of June, first boost activated the other version following shortly after.

I am thinking that I will put the pump either in the wheel well on the front or I will actually have the pump and the tank in the back, balancing the extra weight added by removing the heavy OEM battery. I know that running the lines would be a nightmare, however it is all a matter of having enough room up front.

He says that running a single M4 nozzle is most likely enough. The ECU should be able to adapt to the system automatically. I do not thin an extra tune is needed. We shall see how it goes, once the system is released I will speak to VAST and see whether they are willing to install it. What I really like about this system is that it is actually capable of reading the Injector Duty Cycle on the FSI engines.

I shall keep you posted.

[DaveD]

Looking forward to seeing your results!

[boravr6]

so any reason why a meth application could not help out keeping the IM cooler the S4?

Or are all RS4 just getting that to reduce carbon buildup?

[RS4POWER]

What happened to the APR S/C?

[beemercer]

Interesting, I'm curious as to how this will all work out.

[NY07RS4]

I had thought a tune WAS necessary to take advantage (or full advantage) of a w/m system...? I know PES has the I/M with the bungs for each cylinder, I wonder if there is an advantage spraying with 8 nozzles there vs. the single nozzle elsewhere. I would think the 8 nozzle route would help more with the CB issues on the back of the valves since it would be a more direct route with almost instant contact. Nonetheless, interested to find out your feelings and results once installed.

[beemercer]

I had thought a tune WAS necessary to take advantage (or full advantage) of a w/m system...? I know PES has the I/M with the bungs for each cylinder, I wonder if there is an advantage spraying with 8 nozzles there vs. the single nozzle elsewhere. I would think the 8 nozzle route would help more with the CB issues on the back of the valves since it would be a more direct route with almost instant contact. Nonetheless, interested to find out your feelings and results once installed.

The tune will make better use of the W/M. Without the tune, the ECU should adapt to the cooler intake charge by using more timing advance. With a tune you can start to compensate more aggressively for the cooler charge and higher octane rating of methanol.

[Living Weapon]

It may be worth graphing volumetric efficiency from logs as shown here, to see if wet flow in the manifold costs us any air capacity.

This was a constant debate at the import forums, that manifolds and intake ports designed for carburetor setups (wet flow) were somehow optimized differently than direct injection motors (dry intake). The theory was that where flow changes velocity (bends in runners, or at the valves) the difference in weight of one cubic foot of air vs. that same air volume with fuel or water droplets suspended in it would impact VE.

If all it takes is some logging and spreadsheet work to settle this debate once and for all, I'd love to do some driving with vs. without meth once I have my car back from the clutch and suspension install.

[Retsujou]

Let me correct something I said. The tune is not necessary to get the benefit of cooler intake temperatures and thus the ECU starting to pull timing. If you wanted to have more aggressive timing to begin with because you are compensating for the Meth/water mixture then the initial maps would have to be adjusted of course. That is not really what I am looking for at the moment, as I am sure JHM will come upw ith something or APR might.

As to the Super Charger. I am still on the list, but I have heard nothing from APR for a month so I am beginning to make other plans for my money. I am trending towards saving the cash and putting it into a different car, one the ones mentioned here. I will have a chat with sharkwerks about that later this week.

[Retsujou]

It may be worth graphing volumetric efficiency from logs as shown here, to see if wet flow in the manifold costs us any air capacity.

I think we should truly instal a web-service somewhere , where people can submit their logs and all kinds of data will automatically be mined.

[mbgt72]

So after being sucked into this whole idea by you people I researched around a little bit. I talked to dan@labontemotorsports and he advised me of their S3 system which you can look at here.
http://www.labontemotorsports.com/st...ow/ISG-S3.html

That system does not run off the MAF it actually picks up RPM+IDC+Vacuum even for the FSI engines. They are running the S3 kits on the Audi R8 V10 and the recent corvettes with some rather good feedback. Their S4 system will be out end of June, first boost activated the other version following shortly after.

I too was looking at the kits that they had, however, I was actually looking at the one that ran off of the MAF. All the others mentioned using boost to control spray volume nad I figured the MAF would be the easiest and cleanest install. I'm not too experienced in meth so please school me as this is an install I'd be tackling myself.

On another note I talked to jhm and they said that the tune should both account for the cooler temps and richer octane and adjust accordingly, so correct, an additional tune would not be needed.

Finally if I do go this route ( and I do want to do this, if nothing else to help keep the internals super clean and be ready for a sick s/c application) I had thought the best setup would be move the battery to the trunk, particularly the side compartment like ngng did, and then put a smaller meth/water tank in the original battery location. You may have to fill it up a little more often but to me it seems like the easiest and best option.

so lets hear your thoughts and school me on my errors!

[Retsujou]

I too was looking at the kits that they had, however, I was actually looking at the one that ran off of the MAF. All the others mentioned using boost to control spray volume nad I figured the MAF would be the easiest and cleanest install. I'm not too experienced in meth so please school me as this is an install I'd be tackling myself.

My battery is already in the trunk so I do not have that option with the RS4.
Running off the IDC,RPM and Vacuum indicators is actually more precise than running off the MAF if I am not mistaken. The S4 version 1 will be boost control only the S4 version two will be for FSI that is N/A according to the dude I spoke to.

[mbgt72]

My battery is already in the trunk so I do not have that option with the RS4.
Running off the IDC,RPM and Vacuum indicators is actually more precise than running off the MAF if I am not mistaken. The S4 version 1 will be boost control only the S4 version two will be for FSI that is N/A according to the dude I spoke to.

Oh yea, I knew that but just wasnt thinking about what car you had. Oh well, one more perk to having an RS4 huh. Is there anything that is in that location stock? Just wasn't sure. Thanks for the info and I'll look into it some more.

Also on that kit, if we do go to a forced induction platform, what would have to be changed over for the meth to work with the boost controller? I don't want to buy one kit just to go to another if I end up boosting later on.

[Steadyb]

Retsujou did you ever install a Water/Meth kit? If so which and what did it do to performance/air temps?

I plan to inject my RS4 a few weeks after SC'ing in order to measure the temp before & after. Most kits come with a 250gph pump but injector sizes seem to be all over the place. Wondering if anyone knew a formula to figure out what size injector to use? I was set on this system but now I need to compare it to the LMS kit -
The Best Water injection system and water methanol injection systems at AlcoholInjectionSystems.com

Anyone with a supercharged RS4 getting excellent results from a certain kit or running a system with Staggered and/or separate Injection points? Happy Motoring, http://www.flickr.com/photos/63360839@N07/5763209880/

[koolade9]

Retsujou did you ever install a Water/Meth kit? If so which and what did it do to performance/air temps?

I plan to inject my RS4 a few weeks after SC'ing in order to measure the temp before & after. Most kits come with a 250gph pump but injector sizes seem to be all over the place. Wondering if anyone knew a formula to figure out what size injector to use? I was set on this system but now I need to compare it to the LMS kit -
The Best Water injection system and water methanol injection systems at AlcoholInjectionSystems.com

Anyone with a supercharged RS4 getting excellent results from a certain kit or running a system with Staggered and/or separate Injection points? Happy Motoring, RS4-FRONT (2) | Flickr - Photo Sharing!

Which S/C kit did you install?




...wait for it....

[NY07RS4]

X2.