3rd party dyno - Stock vs APR 93 tune

[NWS4Guy]

http://www.audizine.com/forum/showth...and-Video-Clip

The meat of it:

Mustang Dyno, 4th gear

Pre APR Tune - 297 whp

Post APR Tune - 361 whp

Discuss.

Mustang Dyno, 4th gear

Pre APR Tune - 297 whp

Post APR Tune - 361 whp

64whp gain [drive] .. difference at 6600rmps - 80whp (361 vs 281)


Video Clip -


dyno sheet -

[voltrons_head]

Good runs! Fonzie's car is coming along real nice.

[mbgt72]

Nice, I like seeing the independent dyno's, sounds like it's right about what we'd expect though.

[richib86]

just a thought... i remember keith saying something about the dsg cars outputting 6% less power than the 6mt. tho it wasnt an independent dyno, my runs of 383hp would be exactly that, 6%. discuss lol

[NWS4Guy]

just a thought... i remember keith saying something about the dsg cars outputting 6% less power than the 6mt. tho it wasnt an independent dyno, my runs of 383hp would be exactly that, 6%. discuss lol

Yea he did say that, of course, that may also be that the 6MT can redline (post flash) to 7,200 while DSG will need the HPA flash to raise the redline as they will stop at 7K. We all know the biggest gains are at the top, so I am more thinking that is the reason than drivetrain losses.

[richib86]

oh i agree with you 100% that was more meant for a few ppl that thought the AWE dyno was over inflated. i just found that virtually the same setup was able to mimic that 6% to be interesting

[sabba]

Awesome numbers guys, this car is a real big fat superstar!

Think it's pure coincidence that you made 6% more whp then the DSG car ESP if the runs were done on different dynos. That neither here nor there and it doesn't matter cause anyway you look at it this car is unleashed with just a tune.

Be safe, enjoy your cars. Hope I find one of you guys on the road one day so we can see how my turbo'd a3 stacks up against this platform.

[richib86]

its def a coincidence, but just a funny one

[sakimano]

what other mods? Seems like a bit of a big jump considering everyone else was more like 30-40whp.

Great dyno sheet too...I like how the scale is removed. And the type. And the correction factors.

lol

[sakimano]

just a thought... i remember keith saying something about the dsg cars outputting 6% less power than the 6mt. tho it wasnt an independent dyno, my runs of 383hp would be exactly that, 6%. discuss lol

didn't you go to AWE? a.k.a. for years we've had a happy dyno that reads like APR's hub dyno, so our tunes would look good too?

Yea he did say that, of course, that may also be that the 6MT can redline (post flash) to 7,200 while DSG will need the HPA flash to raise the redline as they will stop at 7K. We all know the biggest gains are at the top, so I am more thinking that is the reason than drivetrain losses.

makes a lot of sense.

I think it's funny that APR throws out a number pertaining to drivetrain losses. As we all know (I hope the B8 world does and won't call me a hater) drivetrain losses on different dynos are vastly varying. From 25% to 13% if you really look into it (comparing stock cars on different dynos)

At the end of the day, all that really matters is delta%...and back to the dyno this thread was started about, that delta seems really high (21.5%). I wonder if he's rocking tune/exhaust/intake/downpipes/LW wheels? Or is this really just tune vs. stock done same day same dyno? Scratch that...it's definitely not same day if it's APR since you have to mail in the ECU.

Any other stock vs just tuned cars out there? You guys should get a spreadsheet going (lol)

just noticed his signature...

2011 S4 - Customized Milltek Non-Res, APR 93 ECU, Sprintbooster, KW V3's, 15%

It's the tinted windows. That's what did it.

he also has a catback which definitely adds a bit.

[beemercer]

...You guys should get a spreadsheet going (lol)

[richib86]

lol

[primetime]

It's a nice result, no doubt.... I am looking forward to his track times.... He was hoping to go stock but couldn't make it.... Says the S4 is now hanging with his moded RS6 to 90mph.... Would have been nice to have had delta times from stock runs but whatever.... He should post 12.4x's-12.5x's imo(assuming good weather).... with launch control maybe low 12.4x..... Can't wait to see the 60's for a tuned LC car even if it isn't 100 octane.... This will give me a good gauge for what the HPA will net me

[DaveD]

Richi and I have to meet up again, these B8's are pretty impressive so far.

[NWS4Guy]

Great dyno sheet too...I like how the scale is removed. And the type. And the correction factors.

lol

Always has to be a conspiracy?





If you want more info, go ask yourself.

[voltrons_head]

Richie and i dynod the same day same dyno and my dsg was about 6 or so% less than his 6mt if I remember correctly.

Also higher rpm wouldn't have helped cause the power curve flattened out before my car switched into 5th at 6700rpm. Holding to 7200rpm wouldn't have given me a higher number I don't think.



See how the power curve was flattening. I think the DSG switched gears because the car would go faster if it switched gears then.

[sakimano]

Always has to be a conspiracy?
If you want more info, go ask yourself.

always? WTF does that even mean?

When numbers are funky, I ask questions, rather than eating it with a big spoon. Remember the APR thread last year? Guess what...I asked questions and I was BANG ON. Now that you guys have a bunch of stock dynos (especially yours) people realise that APR's dyno is indeed 10% higher reading than what most dynos (jets and mustangs) read.
Remember the predictions about pump tuned B8s at the strip? All of you guys thought 11s with tune/exhaust/intake..or very low 12s. Guess what? I was BANG ON with my 12.6 @ 112-113 guess. You (yes you) called me a conspiracist or hater on both occasions...but hey, maybe a cold view of the facts that conflicts with yours will always be considered ill intended.

Anyway, I asked for info about the dyno because you posted nothing but a link to a site that many on this site hate. This site was founded on the principle that people deserved better than Audizoo...and the first 2000 members are primarily composed of individuals who left the zoo for a reason. If you want to drive traffic back over there, forgive me for not enjoying that. I will never post on AZ again...so don't ask me to.

[NWS4Guy]

There is a difference in tone between saying something like

"I would be interested to see the scale at the edge of the chart and what, if any correction factors were used to help quantify what data we are seeing"

and what you said. If you cannot see the difference, I hope you are not in a profession which requires you to present yourself in type very often. You are (and it seems purposeful) an abbrassive person.

I (I can even dig the posts up) asked you MANY times to please, pretty please, find and link a post where I ever called you a hater, you choose not to acknowledge those posts I made asking such, because I never have.

Don't break your arm patting youself on the back with predictions, that's all well and good, but even you admit that spreadsheet racing is worthless, and a dyno should be like above, where you present same car, same dyno and if possible same DAY to look at the delta.

[sakimano]

Don't break your arm patting youself on the back with predictions, that's all well and good, but even you admit that spreadsheet racing is worthless, and a dyno should be like above, where you present same car, same dyno and if possible same DAY to look at the delta.

maybe one day you'll figure out that I have a clue and maybe what I say isn't just to start an argument. Look at the title of this thread...
'3rd party dyno - stock vs APR 93 tune'

then look at your first post

Pre APR Tune - 297 whp
Post APR Tune - 361 whp
Discuss.

Discuss it I did...I pointed out that there's something wrong with the numbers...the delta makes no sense for just a tune. I then went to the thread and brought the info over and added it to your first post.

Guess what? It's NOT stock vs. APR TUNE. It's stock vs.:

• APR 93 tune
• LW wheels and tires
• custom Milltek exhaust with x pipe added
• intake
• sprintbooster

Further...

• stock dyno done a month ago
• all mods done in between
• tuned dyno done this week (and no info on environmental conditions of either day or corrected vs. non-corrected shared)

So again...was it really me trying to start a conspiracy? Or was I just the only one to notice the glaring omissions? Save the drama for Audizine bud. This place is different...facts first wins here, not drama llamas.

[primetime]

Sak, FYI.... He had the exhaust on for his first dyno and he isn't running a intake.... so the changes between then and now were the tune, wheels(they are not LW as they are 28lbs a piece), and sprintbooster(lol).... He mentioned it being 90 the previous dyno runs but no mention this time....

Also, I am not trying to get in a pissing match with you or Neal just figured I would point this out.... Since we don't race or drive on dynos until he makes some passes and posts some slips it's just a dyno #..... Hopefully, he will get some passes soon to validate those rather nice numbers...

[mbgt72]

Since we don't race or drive on dynos until he makes some passes and posts some slips it's just a dyno #..... Hopefully, he will get some passes soon to validate those rather nice numbers...

Love that primetime, +rep for that comment!

[sakimano]

Sak, FYI.... He had the exhaust on for his first dyno and he isn't running a intake.... so the changes between then and now were the tune, wheels(they are not LW as they are 28lbs a piece), and sprintbooster(lol).... He mentioned it being 90 the previous dyno runs but no mention this time....

Also, I am not trying to get in a pissing match with you or Neal just figured I would point this out.... Since we don't race or drive on dynos until he makes some passes and posts some slips it's just a dyno #..... Hopefully, he will get some passes soon to validate those rather nice numbers...

you sound like an EA B6/7 owner!

Good point about the catback...wasn't sure when he modified it with an X

Also, turns out he also has a downpipe mod. Milltek or 034 or something...hard to get a straight answer from his posts.

The wheels at 28lbs are still 3lbs lighter than the stockers aren't they? 12 lbs of rotating mass is pretty significant. Further, the tires...stock is the Dunlops which aren't exactly light.

Still, this gets back to the point from the beginning...this is not stock vs tuned. There are a bunch of mods at play here.

[mr lee]

Wonder how accurate this really is. I'm on APR92 w/ APR Downpipes/Catback...

[richib86]

lets get one thing straight no1 here is running downpipes of any kind. what everyone is calling downpipes is nothing more than a section of catback. cats are still intact in 98% of the cars out there right now except for the handful of ppl running the 034 cat pipes or in my case the headers(coming monday)

[sakimano]

this is a B8 S4 (2011)

[sakimano]

lets get one thing straight no1 here is running downpipes of any kind. what everyone is calling downpipes is nothing more than a section of catback. cats are still intact in 98% of the cars out there right now except for the handful of ppl running the 034 cat pipes or in my case the headers(coming monday)

what did he say...'034 style downpipe mod'

not sure what that means

p.s. you got nothing straight

[mr lee]

this is a B8 S4 (2011)

ahh.. my bad. i didn't realize what section this was in.

[mr lee]

lets get one thing straight no1 here is running downpipes of any kind. what everyone is calling downpipes is nothing more than a section of catback. cats are still intact in 98% of the cars out there right now except for the handful of ppl running the 034 cat pipes or in my case the headers(coming monday)

This is what I was referring to...


http://3werks.com/Audi/S4_B6_B7.htm

but again, i'm in the wrong section

carry on

[richib86]

idk who said fonzie has anything 034 but he doesnt, he has a miltek catback with the resonator section replaced with an x-pipe. ALL the exhaust companies that have "downpipes" arent truly downpipes, its just a resonator on a midpipe. the real downpipes that contain the cats are further upstream
034 makes the cat section and the eurocode headers replace the header and cat pipe

p.p.s. im as straight as can be

[richib86]

This is what I was referring to...


http://3werks.com/Audi/S4_B6_B7.htm

but again, i'm in the wrong section

carry on

ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh

[mr lee]

even your photo says "downpipe resonator"...

[richib86]

they may look the same but they serve completely different purposes

[primetime]

you sound like an EA B6/7 owner!

Good point about the catback...wasn't sure when he modified it with an X

Also, turns out he also has a downpipe mod. Milltek or 034 or something...hard to get a straight answer from his posts.

The wheels at 28lbs are still 3lbs lighter than the stockers aren't they? 12 lbs of rotating mass is pretty significant. Further, the tires...stock is the Dunlops which aren't exactly light.

Still, this gets back to the point from the beginning...this is not stock vs tuned. There are a bunch of mods at play here.

Sak, He basically has the catback section which really includes "downpipes" for the B8 as Richi explains.... Only 3 of us that I am aware of on the boards have the 034's(me, tomtom, and b8 phantom s4) tomtom is actually getting his on today and b8 phantom has had his on but neither are tuned. Richi is the only person that I am aware of with the headers.... Mine will be on early spring before April when the track is open....

I believe the B8 stock peelers are 29lbs.... so he is saving a lb there and probably a few on the tires as well, not sure what he had stock, Audi used 4 different types that I am aware of! LOL

So what gear should the s-tronic be dynoed in? Isn't the objective to get as close to a 1:1 ratio? Sorry not a dyno guy.....

S tronic
First Gear Ratio (:1) 3.69
Second Gear Ratio (:1) 2.24
Third Gear Ratio (:1) 1.56
Fourth Gear Ratio (:1) 1.18
Fifth Gear Ratio (:1) 0.92
Sixth Gear Ratio (:1) 0.75
Seventh Gear Ratio (:1) 0.62
Reverse Ratio (:1) 2.94
Final Drive Axle Ratio (:1) 3.88

[voltrons_head]

Since we don't race or drive on dynos until he makes some passes and posts some slips it's just a dyno #..... Hopefully, he will get some passes soon to validate those rather nice numbers...

LOL. He even pre-empted you in the thread about having not been to the track yet.

[primetime]

LOL. He even pre-empted you in the thread about having not been to the track yet.

Yeah I feel bad, but I really want to know how much LC will help.... Also, he seems to be into cars with a fleet of beasts so why not go make some passes.... shit I would be taking the S4 and RS6 and getting some killer vids of both... What do you think he will run?

Now go enjoy your self in Vegas!

[sakimano]

idk who said fonzie has anything 034 but he doesnt

he himself in a thread was asked 'do you have downpipes?' and he said 'yeah, o34 style Milltek DPs'

[sakimano]

Yeah I feel bad, but I really want to know how much LC will help.... Also, he seems to be into cars with a fleet of beasts so why not go make some passes.... shit I would be taking the S4 and RS6 and getting some killer vids of both... What do you think he will run?

Now go enjoy your self in Vegas!

IBT"these cars are for the road course, not the drag strip"

[voltrons_head]

^^You've been in the whole time. lol

[sakimano]

yeah, but it's coming...

oh wait this isn't qfail or azoo

It's funny...the dragstrip is a blast. It's also a really nice way to test the car's acceleration. Anyone who says 'these cars are meant for the roadcourse, not the dragstrip' is usually:

a) delusional about what these cars are made for...they're autobahn stormers, not race cars.
b) scared to go to the dragstrip because they don't want to run a shit time and get embarrassed

It's always the same.

[mbgt72]

^^ and just for the record, B6/7 guys don't apply to the "a)" category b/c they at highway runs.