Getting down the 1/4 mile

[Justincredible]

Thanks for the invite JOEY.

Well it looks like this is a better place to share the results of my header install and track runs.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/J...for_716466.htm

Ive been thinking I don't want to share it over on some other sites due to the possible fall out that will come from this from S/C and FFRG members that need 15 dyno sheets and a priest there. I ran several 13.01, 13.008, 13.02 all at about 109 MPH

There is more in the car its just hard to balance the launch. Too little break Tq and the car leaves slow. Too much break Tq and the car will spin the tires.

[joeycuccaro]

Originally Posted by Justincredible

Thanks for the invite JOEY.

Well it looks like this is a better place to share the results of my header install and track runs.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/J...for_716466.htm

Ive been thinking I don't want to share it over on some other sites due to the possible fall out that will come from this from S/C and FFRG members that need 15 dyno sheets and a priest there. I ran several 13.01, 13.008, 13.02 all at about 109 MPH

There is more in the car its just hard to balance the launch. Too little break Tq and the car leaves slow. Too much break Tq and the car will spin the tires.

Wow Justin, super impressive! What do you think about creating another track times sticky for this forum?

[drew]

congrats Justin. Great results!

[BWT]

Damn man, 13.00 is a great time! What rpm worked best for launching?

[joeycuccaro]

Originally Posted by drew

congrats Justin. Great results!

Great to see you here, Drew!

[Justincredible]

Originally Posted by joeycuccaro

Wow Justin, super impressive! What do you think about creating another track times sticky for this forum?

Im on it now expect to see something in the next few days.

Originally Posted by BWT

Damn man, 13.00 is a great time! What rpm worked best for launching?

With it being a automatic, your kinda limited. If you look at the last run you can see a little roll of the wheels and then its like the car blasts off. With the headers its WAY different then with just the stock manifolds. I just flashed the converter and let the power of the motor do the rest.

I raced the B5 car a few times but that was the best one where we both went at the same time. After the B5 knew I was able to pull on him, he made it hard to race him...he would leave early, jump or just no go at all. We did get 3 fair races and that was the best looking one from what I could see in the video.

There is a guy that will do videos for us if you want you just need to send him LOTS of footage. He is a cool guy and will make movies for anyone.

I wanted to make sure that the B5 race got in there because me and todshandler were in a conversation about N/A cars Vs S/C cars and he said "where are the off a roll races" and that "no N/A car could beat a S/C car".....its not that I put that in to spite him but to be more of a man of my word and you can see I was not talking out my ars

[beemercer]

Headers are just killing it. The run against the stg3 is awesome to watch.

I'm going to have to take you up on the offer for sharing footage once I get my catback all back together. I'll do some shots with dumps open for shock and awe, and dumps closed to give everyone an idea of what the milltek fullback should sound like.

[BWT]

Originally Posted by beemercer

Headers are just killing it. The run against the stg3 is awesome to watch.

I'm going to have to take you up on the offer for sharing footage once I get my catback all back together. I'll do some shots with dumps open for shock and awe, and dumps closed to give everyone an idea of what the milltek fullback should sound like.

Yeah, it's great to see the NA V8 finally laying down some real numbers. This vid is making me wish I would've waited on getting the FI downpipes and just saved up for a set of headers.

Beemercer, what have you done to your S4? I can't really seem to find much on AZ and you didn't list it here either....

Justin, do you think there would be any difference in times for a similarly modded manual trans S4?

[beemercer]

Originally Posted by BWT

Yeah, it's great to see the NA V8 finally laying down some real numbers. This vid is making me wish I would've waited on getting the FI downpipes and just saved up for a set of headers.

Beemercer, what have you done to your S4? I can't really seem to find much on AZ and you didn't list it here either....

Justin, do you think there would be any difference in times for a similarly modded manual trans S4?

At the moment not a ton as far as performance mods (lots of interior/exterior/electronics details).

Installed:
-Milltek Catless Downpipes
-Milltek 2.25" H-pipe Non-Res Catback
-ITG Panel Filter
-Apikol Rear Diff Mount
-JHM 93 Octane Catless Tune

Waiting to be Installed:
-Apikol Snub Mount
-JHM Intake Spacers
-2.5" catback with a tuned x-pipe design similar to Justincrediable's
-Electronic dumps (these last two should be done within 2 weeks)

Future Stuff:
-JHM Lightweight Crank
-JHM Stg3+ Clutch/Flywheel
-JHM Lightweight Rotors

With the 5 items installed I ran a 13.67 @ 102.2mph with a 1.87 60'. So conceivably with better shift points and a 1.80 60' I could run a 13.4 no problem. Best part is the catback cost me $700, the downpipes $400, the tune $250 (got credit for my downpipes) and rear diff mount was dirt cheap (AZ groupbuy).

[BWT]

Originally Posted by beemercer

At the moment not a ton as far as performance mods (lots of interior/exterior/electronics details).

Installed:
-Milltek Catless Downpipes
-Milltek 2.25" H-pipe Non-Res Catback
-ITG Panel Filter
-Apikol Rear Diff Mount
-JHM 93 Octane Catless Tune

Waiting to be Installed:
-Apikol Snub Mount
-JHM Intake Spacers
-2.5" catback with a tuned x-pipe design similar to Justincrediable's
-Electronic dumps (these last two should be done within 2 weeks)

Future Stuff:
-JHM Lightweight Crank
-JHM Stg3+ Clutch/Flywheel
-JHM Lightweight Rotors

With the 5 items installed I ran a 13.67 @ 102.2mph with a 1.87 60'. So conceivably with better shift points and a 1.80 60' I could run a 13.4 no problem. Best part is the catback cost me $700, the downpipes $400, the tune $250 (got credit for my downpipes) and rear diff mount was dirt cheap (AZ groupbuy).

Thanks for the breakdown. It sounds like we have similar goals as far as performance goes. Currently I have:

Installed
-FI downpipes with high flow cats (shoulda just went catless...)
-FI catback resonated with x pipe
-Apikol rear diff mount

Waiting
-Apikol snub mount
-JHM intake spacers
-K&N filter

For next spring:
I'm kinda up in the air still but I'm definitely going to do all the front end work at the same time
-snub mount
-JHM lw pulley
-new belt
-rs4 grille

Soon thereafter:
-JHM tune
-JHM lw rotors when brake job is needed
-JHM clutch/flywheel

My only concern is to not totally blow my CPO warranty. I spent an extra 3 grand to get CPO'd when I bought the car this past May, so I'd really like to have that to fall back on if something goes really wrong with my car. I'm not that worried about the exhaust or mounts causing CPO problems, but stuff like the tune, clutch/flywheel combo, spacers, and pulley do concern me. I could see AOA using any of those as an excuse to get out of repairing a lot of different issues if something did go wrong.

[beemercer]

Originally Posted by BWT

Thanks for the breakdown. It sounds like we have similar goals as far as performance goes. Currently I have:

Installed
-FI downpipes with high flow cats (shoulda just went catless...)
-FI catback resonated with x pipe
-Apikol rear diff mount

Waiting
-Apikol snub mount
-JHM intake spacers
-K&N filter

For next spring:
I'm kinda up in the air still but I'm definitely going to do all the front end work at the same time
-snub mount
-JHM lw pulley
-new belt
-rs4 grille

Soon thereafter:
-JHM tune
-JHM lw rotors when brake job is needed
-JHM clutch/flywheel

My only concern is to not totally blow my CPO warranty. I spent an extra 3 grand to get CPO'd when I bought the car this past May, so I'd really like to have that to fall back on if something goes really wrong with my car. I'm not that worried about the exhaust or mounts causing CPO problems, but stuff like the tune, clutch/flywheel combo, spacers, and pulley do concern me. I could see AOA using any of those as an excuse to get out of repairing a lot of different issues if something did go wrong.

You have a good list of mods going so far. I definitely feel you on the CPO, I could see pretty much any dealer voiding the motor coverage if you installed lower mass rotating items (flywheel, pulley) because of the delicate external balancing of this motor, or had the tune done.

The tune does help a lot in my opinion. It really opens the car up at WOT.

[sakimano]

Good stuff Justin. You rock!

Car sounds mean. Anyone catch agent 91's videos? WHOA!

[91gl]

yea that 91gl sure is something. what a guy

[joeycuccaro]

Originally Posted by 91gl

yea that 91gl sure is something. what a guy

Post up that video!

[sakimano]

here they are...but they deserve their own thread (and someone who can edit the videos!)

Originally Posted by 91gl

Dont know why my first thread is gone. Here are the vids again for all to see. JHM long tubes with no mufflers and two magnaflow resonators.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6pI11...ture=quicklist

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cL9wAofLfjg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PHsOSDd7nc

These are all with a dying 2 month old 034 005 billet fuel pump as the car now sits dead at my work parking lot[headbang]

[Jay]

Good stuff guys, for sure!

[mad70sx]

Originally Posted by BWT

My only concern is to not totally blow my CPO warranty. I spent an extra 3 grand to get CPO'd when I bought the car this past May, so I'd really like to have that to fall back on if something goes really wrong with my car. I'm not that worried about the exhaust or mounts causing CPO problems, but stuff like the tune, clutch/flywheel combo, spacers, and pulley do concern me. I could see AOA using any of those as an excuse to get out of repairing a lot of different issues if something did go wrong.

I totally feel you there. I desperately want a JHM tune but with mine being an early '04 car with the potential engine issues I'm too chicken to do it. It would be just my luck,the day after installing the tune,my engine would grenade itself and the CPO would be voided once it was discovered that I f'ed with the ECU.

I know it may sound strange,but I almost can't wait till my CPO is up and I can really start tearing my car apart.

[cabracco85]

Originally Posted by BWT

Yeah, it's great to see the NA V8 finally laying down some real numbers. This vid is making me wish I would've waited on getting the FI downpipes and just saved up for a set of headers.

Beemercer, what have you done to your S4? I can't really seem to find much on AZ and you didn't list it here either....

Justin, do you think there would be any difference in times for a similarly modded manual trans S4?

I think some cars with headers will be able to go a little faster then the auto due to less drivetrain loss.

Congrats to justin for showing us all what an auto s4 can do. Very impressive

[sakimano]

Originally Posted by cabracco85

I think some cars with headers will be able to go a little faster then the auto due to less drivetrain loss.

Congrats to justin for showing us all what an auto s4 can do. Very impressive

Any vids of your runs? I think you have the fastest NA S4 run, and the fastest 60 ft of any S4 (on the old list).

[cabracco85]

Originally Posted by sakimano

Any vids of your runs? I think you have the fastest NA S4 run, and the fastest 60 ft of any S4 (on the old list).

I dont have vids besides where i went 13.1. I go to the track solo most of the time. So i cant video and drive at the same time. lol. But i plan on going back with a buddy to video it. I do have the times slips though. I will have to see if i can find that video of me at the track.

[Justincredible]

That 91 guy is tops for sure.

The headers are going to change the cars performance totally. Anyone that gets the headers are going to have to revamp there driving style, unless you have an automatic.

I could tell the TQ down low, that is what helped get the car out of the hole. I really think that the 6 speeds will get lots from the headers but you need to launch lower in the RPM's

Im sure 91 can speak on this but the car is amazing while your cruising you can be in 6th gear on the highway and just barely give it gas and all the extra tq really gets you going.

[91gl]

Originally Posted by Justincredible

That 91 guy is tops for sure.

The headers are going to change the cars performance totally. Anyone that gets the headers are going to have to revamp there driving style, unless you have an automatic.

I could tell the TQ down low, that is what helped get the car out of the hole. I really think that the 6 speeds will get lots from the headers but you need to launch lower in the RPM's

Im sure 91 can speak on this but the car is amazing while your cruising you can be in 6th gear on the highway and just barely give it gas and all the extra tq really gets you going.

yes the headers completely change the way you drive your car whether cruising or ripping it. the torque gained is intense, i could compare it to chipping a b5 s4. it feels THAT good. so overtaking which was not hard before, is now effortless and now you dont need to rev to the heavens to make peak power when racing since peak torque comes on much earlier as does peak hp.

its a shame people are still on this supercharger thing, its not worth it, the cars are just not that fast and for the price its a complete rip off. an efficient running JHM s4 beats a supercharged car any day and where i usually dont care about gas mileage, averaged 19.1 on a 180 mile round trip last week, now thats efficient

[Justincredible]

I'm just not too sure on the S/C thing yet. Im excited for the idea, sure.

But for me, I just don't see a good enough performance separation. you have jays car going almost the same MPH as the best running S/C car and my car runs just as fast as a S/C automatic car. Now I know these guys have some small issues to work out but I would just love to see more out of the S/C cars.

I wouldn't have this issue if I didn't just see the JHM NOS car go 12.4 @ 117. If a S/C is supposed to add 120hp then why is a 100 shot of NOS making that much of a better performance run in the 1/4. If you watch the video its not like JAY is shifting the car all that good and he got a 1.9 60ft.

Its tough to say this because im not anti S/C I just feel like these guys should be seeing better results. Ive said this before. When the S/C cars don't do well we all look bad. Thats when you get a S/C car that races a B5 and all hell breaks loose. In the end the B5 guys can go back to there soap box and talk about how slow are cars are WITH S/C

[sakimano]

Originally Posted by Justincredible

I'm just not too sure on the S/C thing yet. Im excited for the idea, sure.

But for me, I just don't see a good enough performance separation. you have jays car going almost the same MPH as the best running S/C car and my car runs just as fast as a S/C automatic car. Now I know these guys have some small issues to work out but I would just love to see more out of the S/C cars.

Its tough to say this because im not anti S/C I just feel like these guys should be seeing better results. Ive said this before. When the S/C cars don't do well we all look bad. Thats when you get a S/C car that races a B5 and all hell breaks loose. In the end the B5 guys can go back to there soap box and talk about how slow are cars are WITH S/C

well, bear in mind a couple of things on the SC issue

1. the PES cars have tune problems...clearly
2. the VF cars are few and far between. We had access to todeshandler...sort of...while he was motivated to post on AZ. He has since sold the car, so that ends that. We know virtually nothing about the VF SC. We know of Todeshandler's one run at altitude in Vegas on a slow track...while his clutch was slipping...and that's it! Time will show the real story.

I think the real gap is that we have 3-4 awesome guys with headers or good JHM mods to the max (you, jc, cabby etc) but the VF supercharger guys...we just don't know them.

VF has realized that they need publicity, so they started this blog. They installed a supercharger in a customer's car...and are having a well known guy who can really drive take the car to a track to do lap times against a few other cars. Should be interesting!

Finally, NGNG will be getting his SC and headers installed in a month. There you'll have an online guy who isn't shy about sharing. I think then you'll see that the 500hp is no bullshit...and we'll see amazing things from the supercharged cars.

[Justincredible]

When me and the Big4.2 guy have the same times. I just don't know I don't see it enough yet.

BAD tune or not you need to F up the tune pretty bad to have that happen. Am full support for the S/C's that's part of the future for sure. But there should be NO cars that are even close to the N/A cars.

Look at all the domestics, YOu are putting a big gap on people with just a supercharger. Then we just saw the 12.4 run with the 100 shot of NOS with a 1.9 60ft. These are what S/C cars should be putting down

I seriously look at it this way. The lack of REAL performance from the S/C cars is just bad for business. If this keeps up it will turn off people completely to the idea.

I would Fn throw my supercharger threw the window of VF or PES if I got the same #'s Big4.2 had. We both have automatics. I can see the differences in say the manuals. People can launch different but in a auto...foot to the floor.

Im looking at it this way if over the next few months things don't start looking to come in line for the S/C guys performance wise. Im going to start having some issues...but the issues are going to be for the S/C guys. None of witch are going to want to say, that they got robbed, with the current level of performance I would say thats what it looks like is going on.

All this said they are still in the first stages of development/ testing so I'm not quite on the S/C = waste of money. But you can see there are people out there with the torches lit ready to say ok long enough where is the beef?

[91gl]

Originally Posted by sakimano

well, bear in mind a couple of things on the SC issue

1. the PES cars have tune problems...clearly
2. the VF cars are few and far between. We had access to todeshandler...sort of...while he was motivated to post on AZ. He has since sold the car, so that ends that. We know virtually nothing about the VF SC. We know of Todeshandler's one run at altitude in Vegas on a slow track...while his clutch was slipping...and that's it! Time will show the real story.

I think the real gap is that we have 3-4 awesome guys with headers or good JHM mods to the max (you, jc, cabby etc) but the VF supercharger guys...we just don't know them.

VF has realized that they need publicity, so they started this blog. They installed a supercharger in a customer's car...and are having a well known guy who can really drive take the car to a track to do lap times against a few other cars. Should be interesting!

Finally, NGNG will be getting his SC and headers installed in a month. There you'll have an online guy who isn't shy about sharing. I think then you'll see that the 500hp is no bullshit...and we'll see amazing things from the supercharged cars.

that whole clutch slip slow track stuff is just a bunch of BS. how the hell do you pull a 1.8 60 foot with a slipping clutch that he never replaced and was fine up until he sold the car after racing "stage 3" b5's and such. plus that track is also where a buddy of his in his turbo m3 ran a pretty even time with what other equally modded m3's run at friendlier tracks. the car i believe was a HPF stage 2, ran a 12.4 at 122 spinning where hpf stage 2 cars ae running 12.2's on street tires at about 124ish from what i saw with my research.
also i remember the "stage 3" b5 against the stage 2 m3 where the m3 completely SHIT on it out the hole and the m3 was spinning!!!!!!!!! and the audi eventually ran a well into the 13's. BULL, it was obvious the stage 3 was sandbagging or not a stage 3 at all. some of you will think "why would they do that" but as a beta tester, there was a lot more to lose on his and vf's part so many steps were taken to cover shit up and sweep the dirt underneath the rug.

as for NGNG's car, i love it but it will see the same results as the rest of them. too much welding, bondo, and other parts that will make that car just too heavy and again the tune is just not up to par. how did b6guy run a slower time and slower trap than justin when he had a charger, methonal injection, AND headers on his car! pes is explainable since their tuning has always been crap but people get it twisted with GIAC (the most overrated tuner on the market) GIAC was good about 6 years ago when there just were not that many options and there just were not that many advancements in the tuning industry. also, anyone can make a chip for a turbo car and make it go fast, adjust boost, fuel and timing voila! as with justin's chip testing on one of his older posts on the zine, he clearly tested that GIAC had ZERO effect on performance. would i trust them with 10k supercharger? yes because i know they will tune it enough (or not enough) in order not to damage my motor, but when it comes to performance, i dont think so.

also with these supercharged cars, there has not been any long term testing. these motor assemblies (crank, rods, pistons, crank pulley, flywheel) are all balanced together as one. when you apply a supercharger belt at high tension onto the crank pulley, that throws off balance and can cause big bill damage later down the road. thats the reason APR abondoned their s/c project

supercharging is not the answer, it never will be. optimistic as you all are about it, it just doesnt work well and will never with these cars. nitrous and turbos are the key. i bet you this will be one interesting 2010 in the v8 community.

[Justincredible]

2nd...2nd...and 2nd that.

I think that PES has a nice kit and VF has the experience. NGNG will be for the the bench mark. He comes across as a straight up guy and I think although he might not complain publicly he would say something if he was not happy.

I saw the Blog and to tell you the truth. that might just fade away in the next few weeks. When the JHM NOS video comes out any less then what they did is going to be a joke from a S/C RS4. That coupled with the fact that they needed to go get a professional driver (experienced) they better hope they do well or its crash and burn.

I think there going to just march the car around a road coarse and never get the the 1/4 mile. Road courses are so subjective and not a bench mark its, IMHO just like the dyno easy to manipulate. There are few people that can speak for true times on a road course and they differ so much its just a propaganda tool there going to throw at you. Whatever, thats there approach and now i continue to see why, more and more they need to go there as apposed to the 1/4 mile.

But we will see.

like I said, Im getting to the point as someone that is a champion for the enthusiasts and demand facts and accountability for the end user, that this is more hype then hp. Things really need to come around and we need to see more performance for these guys and the money they spent.

[sakimano]

Originally Posted by Justincredible

2nd...2nd...and 2nd that.

I think that PES has a nice kit and VF has the experience. NGNG will be for the the bench mark. He comes across as a straight up guy and I think although he might not complain publicly he would say something if he was not happy.

I saw the Blog and to tell you the truth. that might just fade away in the next few weeks. When the JHM NOS video comes out any less then what they did is going to be a joke from a S/C RS4. That coupled with the fact that they needed to go get a professional driver (experienced) they better hope they do well or its crash and burn.

Sadly they weren't doing timed laps. Just 'driver feedback'. Kinda a shame...what a great opportunity to line the cars up or compare timed laps against each other (stock vs. SC). What's with these companies (PES, VF)...they're really shit at marketing. They should hire me.

[sakimano]

Originally Posted by 91gl

that whole clutch slip slow track stuff is just a bunch of BS. how the hell do you pull a 1.8 60 foot with a slipping clutch that he never replaced and was fine up until he sold the car after racing "stage 3" b5's and such. plus that track is also where a buddy of his in his turbo m3 ran a pretty even time with what other equally modded m3's run at friendlier tracks. the car i believe was a HPF stage 2, ran a 12.4 at 122 spinning where hpf stage 2 cars ae running 12.2's on street tires at about 124ish from what i saw with my research.

re: clutch, could be. I don't doubt anything Brian said. He's pretty straightforward with most of his info that he shares. Maybe a bit abrasive, but let's talk facts, right

Think about this chain...the HPF 2 car...600+ RWHP! That's no joke...no bs.

here's what I've seen

1. JHM'd S4 runs pretty even with a stock RS4 from a dig...from a roll who knows as we haven't seen it yet
2. VF Supercharged RS4s murders a stock RS4 from a roll
3. HPF stage 2 M3 murders Supercharged RS4 from a roll

So if the HPF2 M3 only ran 12.2 that night, you can bet it was a slow track!

[Justincredible]

Originally Posted by sakimano

r

1. JHM'd S4 runs pretty even with a stock RS4 from a dig...from a roll who knows as we haven't seen it yet
2.

The JHM car will keep up with a RS4 from a dig and a roll. A customer that came out for a snub mount raced Jay. The customer wishes to remain nameless but is a friend of a guy I do maintenance out here for (RS4)

I can race my buddy's RS4 off a roll and beat him quite easy. We have never raced from a dig but off a roll Ill get him every time.

Im all for the S/C.. Im just really having issues with what these people are ending up with and what "staged" races these guys are having doesn't add up. Seems to be more propaganda then performance. Im not bashing the people that bought one or the company's that make them. But sooner or later someone has to stand up and say....ok guys where is the performance, I just don't see it

As someone that champions for the facts for the people. Do you really feel that people are getting what there paying for?

Lets face it, when most people spend XXXX$ on a S/C there going to be defending the money they spent. Ive gotten to the point where I see more people defending there purchase of the supercharger and why it DIDN'T perform then people that got real results.

That's great that people can "feel" its faster...great now show me how it is faster...yet to be really shown.

after all the countless examples, I can come back to the one that hits home to me.

Automatic to Automatic, my car and big4.2's car. both have headers, I was on pump gas and he is slower then me. My car keeps pace with the 12.8's guys car to if you don't look at the 60ft. My MPH is better then his.

And let me say this one more time. I'm not attacking S/C's, but I do think these guys need to be getting better performance then what we are currently seeing now.

I really think our best look into this will be with NGNG.. Some of the guys have gotten great results there are warriors out there. Lots of the PES guys are putting the cars to the limit and hats off to them. I just want to see more out of there cars for them. For the money and parts they put on there cars. I would like to see more.

Once again as a champion for all the guys willing to spend the money and for the S/C guys stepping up and spending it. I want to see more for them.

[beemercer]

Originally Posted by Justincredible

I really think our best look into this will be with NGNG.

Agreed. Ng is a very straightforward honest guy, he won't bullshit if he feels the SC isn't up to snuff.

Originally Posted by Justincredible

The JHM car will keep up with a RS4 from a dig and a roll. A customer that came out for a snub mount raced Jay. The customer wishes to remain nameless but is a friend of a guy I do maintenance out here for (RS4)
I can race my buddy's RS4 off a roll and beat him quite easy. We have never raced from a dig but off a roll Ill get him every time.

After holding off that Stg3 it's no surprise you can beat on an RS4. Got any videos of that run?

Originally Posted by Justincredible

Automatic to Automatic, my car and big4.2's car. both have headers, I was on pump gas and he is slower then me. My car keeps pace with the 12.8's guys car to if you don't look at the 60ft. My MPH is better then his.

Don't forget he had P/P'd heads that were mysteriously removed... ie they couldn't tune the damn thing with them on there. Another advantage the SC cars could have is that they may not be as limited at high RPM. From some of the early development pictures I saw they are using a pretty free flowing single plenum design that should support high rpm power (as if compressing the intake charge wouldn't do enough to help high RPM power) more so than the limiting stock intake manifold on the N/A cars. Throw in a S8 manifold and in my estimation the N/A cars will walk away from the current SC'ed cars.

[Swanky]

Originally Posted by Justincredible

Thanks for the invite JOEY.

Well it looks like this is a better place to share the results of my header install and track runs.

http://videos.streetfire.net/video/J...for_716466.htm

Ive been thinking I don't want to share it over on some other sites due to the possible fall out that will come from this from S/C and FFRG members that need 15 dyno sheets and a priest there. I ran several 13.01, 13.008, 13.02 all at about 109 MPH

There is more in the car its just hard to balance the launch. Too little break Tq and the car leaves slow. Too much break Tq and the car will spin the tires.

i'm a little late to the party, but great runs. look forward to more results/videos.

[Justincredible]

Swanky a great addition to the party glad to see your hear. This is quickly turning into the knowledgeable base for the performance party members from AZ

[joeycuccaro]

Im going to have to agree with the group here that the SC isnt putting up the numbers that it should be. When it all comes down to it, the JHM bolt-on car is putting out significantly better times than the SC'd car at a fraction of the price. But how is this so? Shouldnt a 120hp inscrease be pushing better numbers? There are two reasons behind this i feel are effecting the performance.

1. Tune- As you all mentioned, PES hasnt been able to properly tune the car with the supercharger. From all of the 60' times it seems that the SC'd cars are able to put the power down at the launch, but quickly die off as the higher RPM's are reached. The JHM car on the other hand seems to really move the higher in the powerband it reaches.

2. Intercooler- Lets face it, the thing is just too damn small. The compressed unit is restricting the capability of the supercharger. It is tough though given the amount of room the s4 allows for such a part to be mounted.

I feel if they were able to solve these two problems the car would be seeming a lot better numbers. For now, however, i feel the money vs performance aspect far favors the JHM route. I am excited that ngng is putting the VF unit in his S4. Im curious to see if they sorted out some of the issues that PES was having.

We shall see...

Justin, Can you post and sticky a 1/4 mile time thread in this section?

[Justincredible]

Yes Ive been working on a better format then the one on AZ. But for now Ill cut and past the AZ one for starters

[91gl]

ngng's car is cool and i love the concept BUT, lets keep it real now. the car will go NO WHERE. too much body work = added weight, jhm headers are great but it all comes down to the tune. VF sucks, lets be honest, GIAC sucks much harder and together they produce absolute garbage. the kit is pretty but they do not put down numbers. the rs4 s/c video where it races that stock rs4 is the biggest bunch of BULL SHIT i have ever seen.

[beemercer]

Originally Posted by joeycuccaro

2. Intercooler- Lets face it, the thing is just too damn small. The compressed unit is restricting the capability of the supercharger. It is tough though given the amount of room the s4 allows for such a part to be mounted.

This is something I noticed as well. Even though the system is an Air-to-Water system, and therefore is imparted certain advantages when it comes to cooling efficiency, the size of the intercooler cores seems to be insufficient. In this case the bigger the core, the better the cooling, and the greater resistance to heat soaking. And especially with a roots type supercharger I'd be worried about having a warm flabby intake charge, low density, less thermodynamic expansion, greater cylinder temperatures... etc.

As a proof of concept for this argument; the fastest PES car, vwrcer, installed a larger intercooler core.


Here's another point:

3. Why an M90? Why, on a $10k supercharger setup, are we stuck with last generation supercharging technology? Why not a 6th gen TVS roots or a Lysholm compressor? We are certainly paying enough for these setups to include such a supercharger, but actually including one would ruin profit margins.

[slo s4]

Hey justin, nice runs. If you don't mind me asking, how many hours in the header install? Did you have to fully remove all attachments on the motor and drop it?

[joeycuccaro]

Originally Posted by slo s4

Hey justin, nice runs. If you don't mind me asking, how many hours in the header install? Did you have to fully remove all attachments on the motor and drop it?

I can't speak for Justin's experience, but it seems it will take a good couple of hours to get the motor out. Mine took about 4 hours to get out but that was with the front end already off, not to mention we ran into some first time troubles. If you have access to a lift than i would suggest dropping the motor. If not, then you can remove the major front end components and slide it out of the front. I will be doing a full DIY withing the coming months with my own experience and the help and knwoledge of Justin.

[slo s4]

Good to know. Can't wait for the DIY so I can show it to my friend who has a lift. Then he can give me a solid quote on installation. I don't think I could do it all myself in any sort of timely manner. Thanks in advance!